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| Lisa Hurwitz with Anne-Katrin Titze on Mel Brooks’s original song with composer Hummie Mann for The Automat: “He composed Mel’s films Robin Hood: Men in Tights and Dracula: Dead and Loving it, and so it was all kind of perfect.” |
In the second instalment with The Automat director Lisa Hurwitz we discuss her work with writer and editor Michael Levine, the interview with Colin Powell, Mel Brooks and composer Hummie Mann’s collaborations, the well-chosen clips in her film, including Sylvia Sidney and Peter Lawford, Jean Simmons and Victor Mature, a Jack Benny party, Tweety Bird and The Flintstones at the Automat, an Edward Hopper painting, and 99 Records founder Ed Bahlman’s childhood fondness for the baked beans at the Automat.
Lisa will participate in three in-person post-screening Q&As this weekend for the theatrical opening at Film Forum in New York of The Automat.
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| Mel Brooks recording (There Was Nothing Like The Coffee) at the Automat Photo: courtesy of A Slice of Pie Productions |
From Los Angeles the week after the Special Event screening of The Automat at the 12th edition of DOC NYC, Lisa Hurwitz joined me on Zoom for an in-depth conversation on her documentary which was also a highlight of Hamptons Doc Fest in December.
Anne-Katrin Titze: Mel Brooks is perfectly placed throughout the movie. He took over in the most wonderful way, it seems. I like very much how you introduce the people. With Colin Powell, we hear his voice first and it makes us wonder. You always add a little of the before or the after to the interviews, things others might cut, who would never say “Can I fix your button?” Did you know right away that you wanted it all a little bit more “imperfect?”
Lisa Hurwitz: I had two editors, and one of them, Michael Levine, he had the idea to let’s make this as funny as we can. He made that his prerogative. A lot of history got cut. A moment like me fixing Colin Powell’s tie doesn’t teach you anything new about history, but at the end of the day, the goal is to make this a film that is enjoyable and watchable and can make history interesting and reach a wider audience.
We didn’t want to make this for just a PBS history audience, but something that younger people would be interested in, people who don’t usually watch historical documentaries. It didn’t matter to me if I was in the film or not, we inserted me in more for some comic relief. At DOC NYC when I was there, and you’ve seen a lot of the DOC NYC films, I was actually having a hard time finding funny documentaries to watch in the festival. I was there for the weekend and I felt I just need some stuff that’s light. I had a hard time finding light documentaries that were playing during the weekend.
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| Horn & Hardart television commercial in The Automat Photo: courtesy of A Slice of Pie Productions |
AKT: Did you see Vincent Liota’s Objects?
LH: Objects?
AKT: Yes, that’s a documentary that has lightness. It’s about people’s relationships to objects. What you are saying about the interviews, it felt as if you and Colin Powell by chance shared a table at the Automat.
LH: It would have been funny if I had brought mugs and some pie.
AKT: No, not necessary. It’s funny enough. The music set the mood perfectly. I love that you didn’t feel the need to update it and make it contemporary, but instead kept it consistent with its time. Besides, of course, the song composed for your film and sung by Mel Brooks.
LH: Thank you for noticing. The music was a priority to me and we spent a lot of our budget on music, too. Because I really wanted an original score. I wanted it to feel like the score of an old Hollywood movie. It just so happened that Mel’s composer - I was living in Seattle for a lot of the time of production - and my neighbour was Mel’s composer. He composed Mel’s films Robin Hood: Men In Tights and Dracula: Dead and Loving it, and so it was all kind of perfect. Mel was really excited that Hummie [Mann] the composer was going to do this.
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| Lisa Hurwitz straightens Colin Powell’s tie in The Automat Photo: Emma Beck |
When Mel asked what favours he could do to help me, I told him I had to think about it, and one of the things I asked was: would you perform an original song? I can have it written for you to make it easy? And he said okay. Then he called me back and said “I’ve actually written a song.” And then he started singing it to me. We were discussing a score that was kind of in the Great American Songbook genre. Our composer Hummie refers to what we ended up with as gentlemen’s swing.
Hummie is a professor of film scoring and two of his former students did the orchestration. We recorded the score in this incredible chapel in Seattle, the same space where the Brokeback Mountain score was recorded. People aren’t really talking so much about our score. Considering that this is my first film, we have a kind of world-class score. I love it.
AKT: I love it too. It goes so well with the clips and the stills you have. There’s Sylvia Sidney and Peter Lawford and Jean Simmons and Victor Mature in the clips and Tweety Bird and The Flintstones at the Automat. And that wonderful Jack Benny party! Were most of those found during your library research or did some of the people interviewed tell you about them?
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| Children selecting something for lunch at a New York City Automat in The Automat (possibly Ed Bahlman’s favourite baked beans) Photo: courtesy of A Slice of Pie Productions |
LH: With a lot of the movie clips, people were just telling me. We have a Facebook page that’s pretty active, so people would just post video clips or send me a message. I was really lucky that people were helping me, giving me pointers. There were some lists already online of films that had Automats. I’m still finding out; I wouldn’t be surprised if there’s like 30 more. It blows my mind.
AKT: I was also thinking of Marilyn Monroe singing Diamonds are a Girl’s Best Friend. She mentions the Automat, correct?
LH: She does. And that didn’t make it into the film. In an earlier cut we had a couple of talking heads who mention her. It didn’t make it in but that was a great reference.
AKT: I remember putting the lyrics together as a reference to what I knew from the Edward Hopper painting. The importance of inclusivity is so well shown in The Automat. How the world changing in the 20th century is so much reflected there. You have the women in the workforce, you have the fact that immigrants could go there because they didn’t have to speak English. You could get your food and didn’t have to talk. All these layers of importance that are really quite fascinating.
LH: I’m very impressed with your research. You could direct your own Automat film now. You mention the Edward Hopper painting, funnily enough, we were on CBS yesterday [November 21], on a show called Sunday Morning, and I got an inquiry yesterday from the art museum that holds the Edward Hopper painting, because they said they’d like to host a screening. I licensed the painting from them in Iowa, I love how the film brings so many players all together.
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| Colin Powell holding a photo of himself, c. 1943 in The Automat Photo: courtesy of A Slice of Pie Productions |
AKT: Wim Wenders recently did a re-staging of various Hopper paintings for the Fondation Beyeler in Switzerland. The idea of loneliness, with COVID on our minds, connects so much with Hopper.
LH: Oh that’s so nice, I didn’t hear of that. It really sounds like you know everything. I’m very impressed.
AKT: One more point about the food itself. What was the food item mentioned most often by people? Is it the pies? The coffee?
LH: At one point I did have a tally going of the most popular food item. I think it was probably the baked beans.
AKT: The baked beans! Actually my spouse, Ed Bahlman, he went as a child to the Automat and he mentioned to me the baked beans and how he loved the baked beans.
LH: I have to look him up! I’ll read about him later.
AKT: Look for 99 Records. And I have been trying to copy those beans. Oh no, he brings them here. They look terrible. I didn’t make them for this. I have him take them away.
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| The Automat opens at Film Forum in New York on February 18 Photo: Anne-Katrin Titze |
LH: Did he see the picture in the film? Was that exactly how he remembered them, in the little crock?
AKT: Yes and yes. Many of the things look really wonderful, they had “panache,” as Mel Brooks says. Thank you so much for this and your great film.
Read what Lisa Hurwitz had to say on Ruth Bader Ginsburg, Julie Cohen, a Mel Brooks question answered, and the making of The Automat.
The Automat opens at Film Forum in New York on Friday, February 18. In-person Q&As with Lisa Hurwitz will take place following the Friday 7:00pm, Saturday 7:30pm, and Sunday 5:40pm screenings.
